Įsivaizduojamas pokalbis

2011-06-30

Aš dažnai mintyse apgalvoju pokalbius, kurie kada nors vyks tarp manęs ir mano vaiko. Jis tikrai paklaus, iš kur atsirado, kas yra mirtis ir panašiai. Perskaičius apie lyčių klausimu gana radikalų darželį Švedijoje mintyse sukurpiau dar vieną pokalbį:

Vaikas:
mama, o kas yra gėjus?
Aš: tai vyras, kuris myli ne moterį, o kitą vyrą.
V.: o jeigu man patinka žaisti su Petriuku, tai aš gėjus?
A.: ne, jūs tiesiog geri draugai. Ar vyras yra gėjus, jis supranta tik tada, kai užauga.
V.: ar gėjumi būti yra blogai?
A.: tai nėra nei gerai, nei blogai. Negerai, nes gamta sukūrė vyrą ir moterį tam, kad jie galėtų vienas kitą mylėti ir kartu turėti vaikų. Du vyrai vaikų turėti negali, todėl jei visi būtų gėjai, žmonės išnyktų. Tačiau visi žmonės yra skirtingi ir negali suprasti, kas jų širdelėse dedasi. Todėl negalima ir sakyti, kad gėjai yra blogai.

(Čia tik pavyzdys, jei nepatinka, pakeiskit žodį “gėjus” į “lesbietė”, “homoseksualas” ar pan.)

Ir tada supratau, kad mano požiūris į seksualines mažumas yra būtent toks. Aš ne homofobė ir man jos netrukdo, tiesiog esu už natūralumą, sukurtą gamtos :) Nemanau, kad homoseksualumas yra įperšamas, tai turbūt koks nors hormonų disbalansas (nežinau, kaip ten iš tikrųjų, nesidomėjau).

O tas darželis, apie kurį užsiminiau pradžioje tai… man jis nepatinka. Aš noriu, kad mano vaikas skirtų moterį nuo vyro. Noriu, kad jis žinotų, kad vyrai negali išnešioti ir pagimdyti vaikų, jie neturi įgimto motinystės instinkto, kad dažniausiai yra fiziškai stipresni. Kad moterys yra smulkesnės, kad joms nemutuoja balsas, kad jų lytiniai organai kitokie. Lytis yra lytis, negalima jos ištrinti ir suvienodinti. O ar vaikui labiau patiks kieme kaltis lazdomis, ar siūti žaislams drabužius, tai man jau jokio skirtumo.

Kategorija: Vyrai/Moterys | Komentarų: 195

Salomėja

2011-06-30 16:49

O man tai kliūna mintis, kad “Negerai, nes gamta sukūrė vyrą ir moterį tam, kad jie galėtų vienas kitą mylėti ir kartu turėti vaikų”. Kodėl?
Gamtoje, tarp gyvūnų taipogi daug homoseksualumo ir labai egoistiška manyti, kad žinome kam ir kodėl tai sukurta.
Esi už natūralumą sukurta gamtos, bet skamba tarsi homoseksualus būtų sukūrę robotai. Ir jeigu “gamta sukūrė” žmones, kurie neturės vaikų, tai irgi ne veltui. Gamta moka reguliuotis :). Iš to paties: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation. Todėl nėra gėjai blogai ar gerai, jie yra labai gerai ir sprendžia šitą konkrečią problemą. Nes tokioje populiacinėje situacijoje vaikų turėjimas nusikaltimas prieš tą pačią gamtą.
Bet aš čia apie santykius su gamta, o ne socialinius žmonių su žmonėmis :)).

Laura

2011-06-30 18:12

Na, tai yra viena iš teorijų, kuria aš nelinkusi tikėti :)

Jolanta

2011-06-30 18:27

Hmm..o jeigu sūnus užaugs ir į namus atsives draugą, su kuriuo prie tavęs laikysis susikibęs už rankyčių ir glėbesčiuosis, o tu įsivaizduosi tolesnius veiksmus, pažiūrėčiau, ar tau pavyktų išlaikyti tą santūrumą… Man taip pat nei šilta nei šalta,ar žmogus yra kitos seksualinės orientacijos,kol tai galbūt nepaliestų manęs pačios ,t.y. mano šeimos. Tema labai socialiai jautri ir opi.

Salomėja

2011-06-30 21:56

Per didelė populiacija yra problema, o ne teorija :). Problemomis ir nereikia tikėti, prieš jas galima užsimerkti :). Arba galima elgtis taip kaip ketini tu (kaip misionieriai pas indėnus ar afrikiečius).
Beje, niekada nebūčiau patikėjusi, kad mano pažįstama Laura homoseksualizmą gali pavadinti liga (“turbūt koks nors hormonų disbalansas”).

Tio

2011-06-30 22:26

Skirtingi žmonės, skirtingas supratimas. Apie viską ;)

Salomėja

2011-06-30 22:31

:) Tikrai skirtingas. Viena tik stabilu, kad tas supratimas šimtmečius nesikeičia. Anksčiau visiems buvo pasakojama, kad visi žmonės lygūs ir geri, jei tik balti, dabar dar pridedama šiek tiek daugiau sąlygų.

Tio

2011-06-30 22:33

aš ir apie patį įrašo supratimą ;)

Laura

2011-06-30 22:42

:)) Aš ir manau, kad visi žmonės lygūs, niekada nemaniau kitaip. Bet jei sūnus manęs paklaus, ar gerai yra būti gėjumi, aš jam tikrai neatsakysiu “taip vaikeli, tai yra labai puiku. Pirmiausia pabandyk įsimylėti kelis berniukus, o tik tada jau mergaitę, nes nu dar netyčia būdamas darželyje nesusiprasi, kad esi gėjus”.

Beje, teorija vadinu ne per didelę populiaciją, o homoseksualizmą kaip gamtos sukurtą priemonę jai spręsti.

Salomėja

2011-06-30 22:51

Įrašas atskleidžia Lauros požiūrį į homoseksualus ir menamą paaiškinimą savo vaikui. Paaiškinimas ar gėjai blogai tikrai skamba panašiai, kaip iš serijos, visi geri jei tik balti. Menamame paaiškinime jokio humaniškumo, tik paaiškinimas, kodėl gėjai yra blogai ir prie bandymo vaidinti toleranciją tolesnis gūžtelėjimas pečiais “kas ten juos supras” (“visi žmonės yra skirtingi ir negali suprasti, kas jų širdelėse dedasi”).
Kurią vietą blogai interpretavau?
Ką dar blogai įraše supratau? Galiu nediskutuoti apie tai ką gamta sukūrė nartūraliai, o ko ne. Aš netikinti. Tik stebinti. Ne kartą esu girdėjusi apie natūralioje gamtoje vykstančias homoseksualumo apraiškas, naminėje gyvūnijoje mačiusi savomis akimis.
O paskutinis sakinys primena neseną atvejį kai archeologai atkasę kapą nusprendė, kad jis gėjaus. Mat ten buvo daug puodų.
Taip aš supratau įrašą. Būtų smalsu išgirsti, kaip supratai tu. Aš tikiuosi parenku sakinius taip, kad nenuskambėtų piktai, ar pan. ir niekas neįsižeis.

Salomėja

2011-06-30 22:53

Laura, prikomentavau nemačiusi tavo komentaro:). Jei tu manai, kad žmonės yra lygūs tai kodėl neatsakysi, kad “žinok, vaikeli, jokio skirtumo, svarbu, kad tavo mergaitė ar berniukas geri žmonės būtų”.

Laura

2011-06-30 22:59

Jei jis suvoks, kad yra gėjus, nepyksiu ir neprieštarausiu. Tiesiog nenoriu jam kalti į galvą, kad tai yra gerai, kaip dabar darosi madinga :)

Tio

2011-06-30 23:03

Salomėja, ar aš sakau, kad kažką blogai interpretavai? Tiesiog skirtingai nei aš. Ir tai nėra blogai, tai nėra gerai, tai yra tiesiog kitaip, kaip is su pačiu homoseksualizmo supratimu.

Ir tikrai nemanau, kad reiktų dabar įrodynėti ką Laura norėjo pasakyti šiuo įrašu, nes visa tai tebus tik interpretacija, kuri priklauso nuo interpretatoriaus požiūrio į pasaulį.

Jolanta

2011-07-01 15:19

Kodėl pastaruoju metu yra negerai būti visuotinai priimta norma? Jeigu aš pati esu tradicinės seksualinės orientacijos, tai turiu vaidinti, kad gėjai ar lesbietės man labiau patinka negu visi likę? Tik tada būsiu šiuolaikiška? (Su rase ar tautybe tai nieko bendra neturi). Man jie gyventi netrukdo, bet kam propaguoti ir šaukti apie tai ant kiekvieno kampo? Yra daug įvairiausių žmonių grupių, kurių polinkiai ar interesai nėra visuotinai paplitę. Tokiu atveju ir narkomanas gali pasakyti, jog jis pasirinko tokį gyvenimo būdą ar gamta jam taip sutvarkė, kad nesisvaiginęs nesijaučia gerai. Tolerancija yra nuostabiausias dalykas, bet neperženkime proto ribų. Mano kolegų tarpe yra vienas gėjus, bet diskriminuojama jaučiuosi aš, nes jis turi įvairių smulkių privilegijų todėl, kad yra gėjus. Mat vadovas nori įrodyti, koks jis tolerantiškas…

Salomėja

2011-07-01 18:08

Jolanta, aš kalbu ne apie išaukštinimą, o apie tai, kad žmonės sako, kad visi lygūs, bet tai paneigia iš karto. Visi lygus, tik kiti lygesni :). Nepatinka jums šunys, patinka katės. Tai taip sakykit. O ne visi gyvūnai man patinka vienodai, bet katės geresnės.
O kas yra visuotinai priimta norma? Fantazuoti, kaip vaikai mylisi?

Jolanta

2011-07-02 14:49

Salomėja – oi ne, tie , kurie fantazuoja, kaip vaikai mylisi, ačiū dievui, nėra visuotinai priimta norma. Kas yra norma? Mūsų kultūroje jos jau nusistovėjosius šimtmečius – dauguma atėjo su krikščionybe. Juk nėra nei matriarchato, nei poligamijos… O gal norėtųsi, bet “norma” neleidžia, kuri įteisinta ir įstatymuose. Visi lygūs, ir reikia to siekti, jeigu matome kitaip. Bet dalykinei dikusijai norėtųsi konkrečių “nelygybės”, diskriminavimo pavyzdžių.

Salomėja

2011-07-02 15:12

Jolanta, ne aš čia apie tas fantazijas sugalvojau (” į namus atsives draugą, su kuriuo prie tavęs laikysis susikibęs už rankyčių ir glėbesčiuosis, o tu įsivaizduosi tolesnius veiksmus”) :). Sakiau mamos paklausiu kada prie progos, ar kai aš parsivedžiau draugą ji įsivaizdavo tolimesnius veiksmus, labai smalsu pasidarė :).
O mūsų kultūroje man regis norma yra veidmainiauti. Bažnyčia žodžiais smerkia homoseksualus, bet darbais gi ne, net tinkamai nenubaudžia pričiuptų kunigų. Išsilavinę žmonės garsiai rėkia, kad netiki Dievu, bet visas jo savybes priskiria kam nors kitam, pvz., gamtai ir toliau sau tiki. Ir daug kartų taip toliau. Todėl norma tikrai labai menkas rodiklis. Dar neprabėgo net pusšimtis metų nuo tada, superdemokratinėje valstybėje norma buvo sterilizuoti ką papuolė, neįsileisti į parduotuves ir kitas vietas kitaspalvės odos, savininkų, neįdarbinti ir panašiai. Tai gal visgi džiugu, kad normos keičiasi? Tegul ir lėtai. Gal visgi gerai, kad dabar niekas manęs nesikėsina sudeginti nes turiu daug apgamų, kad leidžia balsuoti ir dirbti. Nes jei normos būtų stipriai įsišaknijusios – viso to negalėtume. Tad tikiuosi ir homoseksualams taikomos normos pasikeis ir jie kažkada taip pat džiaugsis, kad “ant laužo nebedegina”. Taip, man irgi nepatinka jų išaukštinimas, lygiai tiek kiek ir olialia mergaičių. Taip, norėtųsi, kad jie turėtų vienodas socialines teises, bet gaila, kad norint jas iškovoti reikia tiek reklamuotis, rengti eisenas ir pan… Kita vertus ir juodaodžiai, indėnai, moterys ar kitos skriaudžiamos irgi nerado kitokio būdo kovoti. O paprasti žmogeliai gyvena savo gyvenimus. Pvz., manęs niekada niekas neklausė kokia yra mano lytinė orientacija. Nes niekam tai nesvarbu.

Originalas

2011-07-03 12:14

Auklėjimas win!
“(nežinau, kaip ten iš tikrųjų, nesidomėjau).”, bet kažką nusprendžiau gerai ar blogai. Kitą kart nesidomėsiu, nuspręsiu, kad ir žolę rūkyti gerai, nes natūralus produktas… :D

Jei gėjai būtų tokie natūralūs, tai jie turbūt kasmet savo paradų pusnuogiai nerengtų ir necypautų per visur, kur tik sugeba, kokie jie nuskriausti, ignoruojami ir nesuprasti. Nes durnius ir bažnyčioje muša, o iš to galima daryti išvadą, kodėl gėjų dauguma pasaulio nemėgsta. Tas nieko bendro neturi su jų ten religija ar pomėgiais, bet kaip ir kiekvienas žmogus iš darbų vertinamas. Taip jie su savo paradais ir elgesiu galiausiai nusiteikia prieš save pačius visus ne gėjus. Ar bent tokius, kurie kažkuo domisi, ypač prieš primesdami savo nuomonę kitiems. :D

Originalas

2011-07-03 12:33

Dar juokingiau, kad tokie žmonės primeta ir savo religiją “tolerancija yra gera, visi lygūs”, bet vėl kas tai sugalvojo? Kokie argumentai? Kodėl visi lygus, bet į lygesnius reikia dar suskirstyti: mergaites ir berniukus?

Tai labai gražu žioplių tarpe, kur pasakysi bet ką madingo, jau gausi +1.. Tik jei susimąstysi apie tai, tai graudu gali pasidaryti, kaip reklama ir nuomonės formavimas elementariai valdo visą pasaulį. Beje, esminis dalykas, kad sugalvoja kažkas ne iš oro, o sau. Žinoma, kad pedofilimas, gėjams, narkomanams ir kitiems “nuskriaustiems” reikia įteisinti save ar net prisiskirti papildomų teisių. Tereik kelis kvailius įtikinti, kur ir kas gerai, o kas blogai. “Homofobai ir blaivaus proto žmonės labai, labai blogai? Mados vištos labai, labai gerai?” NOT! :)

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